Casey Meraz is the Founder and CEO of Juris Digital, where he leads law firm growth through strategic SEO, content marketing, and digital innovation. With over 15 years of experience in legal marketing, Casey has helped firms nationwide build high-performing online presences that generate real, trackable ROI. He began his career leading marketing for The Reeves Law Group before launching his own agency, which evolved into Juris Digital. A published author, national speaker, and host of the Lawyer Mastermind Podcast, Casey is known for combining data-driven strategies with a client-first approach that delivers lasting results.
Leann Pickard is the Chief Operations Officer at Juris Digital, where she leads with innovation, strategy, and a passion for helping law firms grow. With a background in SEO, PPC, and business operations, she has played a key role in scaling legal marketing strategies that drive real results. Leann’s expertise lies in blending cutting-edge digital marketing techniques with a client-first approach, ensuring law firms stay ahead in a competitive landscape.
Rob Claybon, Director of Strategy at Juris Digital, blends a data-driven mindset with hands-on marketing expertise to help law firms grow smarter. With a background in banking and a career built on full-spectrum digital marketing—from SEO and PPC to email and web development—Rob specializes in aligning business goals with strategic marketing decisions. His technical skill set and passion for analytics empower firms to compete effectively in competitive markets and sign the cases they want most.
Steve King, Director of Existing Growth at Juris Digital, brings years of experience in legal SEO and content marketing. With a background in copywriting and digital strategy, he specializes in helping law firms increase visibility, generate leads, and sign more cases. His expertise in sustainable marketing strategies ensures that firms can adapt to ever-changing search trends.
Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseymeraz
https://www.linkedin.com/in/leannpickard
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-claybon-8169262b
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenking1982
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Interview Transcript
Casey
Hello and welcome to the Lawyer Mastermind Podcast. I’m Casey Meraz, and today I’m joined by Rob, Leann and Steve. Guys, thank you so much for joining me today.
Steve
Happy to be here.
Rob
Happy to be here.
Casey
Awesome. Are you really happy?
Leann
I am.
Casey
Okay.
Leann
Excited to be here.
Casey
Awesome. Well, today we’re going to be talking about an interesting topic that I think a lot of law firm owners and marketing managers can relate to, and that’s the “Six-Month Scaries in SEO” that we’re calling it here. Rob, you kind of coined the term, or I had heard about it from you anyway, but the problem that we’re going to dive into today, is there a problem here? Are you not happy with the results or are we not aggressive enough or whatever? So, we’re going to kind of go into this and dive a little bit deeper, but Steve, I want you to kind of start off here. Let’s talk about a typical SEO timeline and why six months may not be enough in competitive markets, you know, even for some established firms.
Steve
So, I think there’s a few reasons why six months is almost never enough time, especially in a big market. If you’re in a Houston or a Dallas-Fort Worth metro or you’re in Los Angeles somewhere like this, you’ve got tons of competition. You’ve got everybody doing the same thing, pushing for the same goals, where it really makes your marketing efforts kind of worth it and compels you to push forward six months just really isn’t enough time because a lot of things in the digital world, they work slowly.
So, if you’re entering and you’re really starting to focus on this now, you have to consider the fact that there are at least dozens of other firms who do the same thing that you do who have probably been doing it for 3, 4, 5, 6 times longer. So, when you start to get that little six-month scary, maybe what you do is you talk to your team, you talk to your agency, whoever you’re working with, and you go back to that communication and you say, “Hey, maybe I thought we’d be a little bit longer further along at this point. What can we do to speed things up? What can we do to think outside the box and start getting us some of those leads that we need, even if this journey is going to take a little bit longer?”
And I think that goes back to what you talk about a lot, Casey, with strategy and having a well-rounded strategy, having different ideas, thinking outside the box. Think that stuff’s important. So, I think that to get a little less point winded here, six months isn’t enough time for the work that you’re doing under the hood to pay dividends.
Casey
And then now I’m just going to play devil’s advocate because it’s trying to be rude, but who wants to answer this? There’s got to be ways you can speed this up and what does that look like? Who wants to maybe want to chime in on that? Of course, I have an opinion.
Steve
More money.
Rob
Yeah, more money helps more resources.
Casey
Of course.
Rob
I always think SEO is a time game, right? Your competitors have been there longer, right?
So their SEO will naturally be better because they’ve existed for a longer time. So that’s allowed them to build more links and all this stuff. So what SEO is, it’s a strategic allocation of resources to try to outwork that time that your competitor has always been there.
Casey
I like that.
Rob
When you do the right things, you can speed up the process to sort of catch up to them and then surpass them, right? But we need to outwork what’s already been done. And when you have a lot of resources, you could do a lot more work to catch up to that timeframe faster.
So, I think that’s really important. And tying that in, you typically can’t do that within six months.
Casey
Yeah. Now, theoretically, what if you could just do everything, create all this content, do all the website updates, build the website, and do all the links on day one? Just flip a switch.
Rob
I love this. This is something I’m very passionate about. Alright. You can’t just follow a script and expect to get there. This is such a reactionary job that we have where we need to put it out there. And then most importantly, this is what I think makes a really good marketer and SEO is see what Google gives us. See how Google reacts. And then you don’t want to fight Google. You want to promote what Google thinks is going to happen. So, if we do a page where it’s a car accident and we do a page where it’s a slip and fall and we do a page that’s a pedestrian accident, and for some reason Google’s like, wow, this person really knows what they’re doing with pedestrian accidents. Rank number three, I’m going to kind of lean towards and work with pedestrian accidents to kind of push things along and go there. So, I think being reactionary and not telling Google what to do, but listening to what Google says is good and promoting that, I think that’s very important.
Casey
Yeah. I think you’ve touched on something important there, and I’m going to throw this one right to you, Leann, and maybe we should all chime in, but what’s the strategy here? Obviously we hear what you’re saying, Rob, should we focus on a hundred areas at once or one, what would you do, Leann?
Leann
Yeah, obviously it comes back to strategy.
Casey
Have a good strategy.
Leann
So, what the goal is, building a strategy amongst that SEO in my world. I’m sitting at the table with three SEOs versus one.
Casey
And we’re teaming up on you, do you mean?
Leann
But I think there’s a lot of avenues what you can do in those six months. So you can go in the community and do more advertising there. While SEO is building behind the scenes, there’s innovative ideas that you can pull into play. There’s also advertising that you can run. So we always say, or I like to say that advertising’s the short game, SEO is the long game. So what’s going to stay on and stick the longest and build with your business? That’s SEO. That’s what you’re investing in. PPC, LSAs, it’s a short game. It gets attention quickly. You can do that in six months, but SEO should be building in the background along the way.
Casey
Sure. Yeah. And I was really talking about from an SEO perspective, if your strategy is to target 10 different practice areas, do you do all 10 at once or do you do one? What’s your take? That’sWhat I wanted to ask everybody.
Leann
Yeah. I would say focused strategy, not focusing on all 10 kind of goes a little against what you’re doing. I think even with the PPC world, asking the client what kind of cases do you want? Do you want all of them?
Casey
And are you changing your mind often?
Leann
Yeah. Do you want all of them? Okay, maybe we do shoot some content out for all of them and see what sticks. Sure. I think, again, strategy, I think that is an approach, but what does the client want? What kind of cases do they care about med mal? Half of them, probably not. Some do, and they love the referral fees, right? So, I think it all goes back to what kind of cases you want. And then really focusing there, I like to focus on specific areas and types of law first, maybe two or three, not 10.
Casey
Okay, so Leann’s answer is two or three.
Leann
Yeah, that’s my long winded answer for you.
Casey
What’s your answer, Steve?
Steve
Well, I think what Rob and Leann are saying actually works together because correct me if I’m wrong, but Rob, you were kind of looking for that one that hits and then pursuing that one, that weak point. Yeah, I think niching down, as they say, is great. Especially if you have something that is paying the bills and works and you can get leads from it. You can hyper-focus on that thing. And still, kind of what you were saying, Leann, let other things work in the background. So you can put however you want to look at it. I’m allocating 60% of my SEO resources to this, the other 40%, I’m going to split a little bit among these other ones and keep working them up and keep trying to develop a lead stream for these, but I’m really focused on this one that is giving me good leads.
Casey
Okay.
Rob
Let me tie this all together too. Bring it in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Six-Months Scaries, right? It’s also about how much progress we want to be able to show to a client, right? Progress brings comfort, like, oh, we’re moving forward. I’ve definitely taken a specific practice area and just doubled down on it. And it’s taken a year of content with very little progress to show because Google’s just not picking it up, but then all of a sudden it pops and things start getting crazy and ranking and doing well. Your topical authority starts to increase in Google’s mind, and that’s fantastic. So my initial approach, I’m all about avoiding those “Six-Month Scaries” because they’re scary and no client wants to see zero progress for an entire year.
Casey
Yeah.
Rob
So, that’s why my initial approach was like, okay, let me see what hits, and then I can build a strategy along that line. But if we have a large company who is committed to staying the course, I will say, tell me what the practice area is and we will achieve it for you. You just need to be aware. This may take a little bit before you see the progress.
Leann
I think that’s all about strategy too, because if they’re the motorcycle guy, they want the motorcycle case brand, they want the motorcycle cases and that approach, it’s going to take a while. You have focused strategy on the one thing.
Casey
But there’s so many nuances and complexities. If you’re a well established firm, you could do a lot of on page and optimize your content and maybe we’ll see results tomorrow.
Leann
Yeah, true.
Casey
Oh, that’s so great.
Casey
That’s a win.
Rob
Yeah and it does happen. Google’s like, oh, this is the website. This is the motorcycle guy. They know motorcycles, rank, rank, rank, rank. Yeah, it’s a beautiful thing and just dominating
Casey
From an entity perspective. They’re like everything about this. So, about 10 years ago, Matt and I, we did these hyper-focus websites and we would say, “Hey, look, let’s have a exact match domain name.” So motorcycle accident lawyer.com and the business name is something like motorcycle accident lawyer and the content. And we built the citations and the links and everything around that. And when Google looked at all those signals, it was very clear there’s no ambiguity. And so we always saw those rank quickly. And I haven’t tried that in 2025 to be clear, but we’ve gotten the other approach too. My approach is actually it is the married them both, I go wide on a strategy and then I’ll go deep into something very specific that I think is going to show those results. But you mentioned Rob, that people don’t want to wait six months or a year or however long to see results. What can you track though to know that you’re on the right track internally? Let’s say that you didn’t even want to trust your agency. I think a lot of people have been burned. What’s a tool that law firm owners or marketing managers can do to track to say, “Hey, look, you know what, we’re heading in the right direction.”
Rob
Yeah. Well, to be clear, I don’t want to wait more than six months either. Yeah, there’s a lot of good tools out there. What is it? You have AHref, you have SEMrush, a lot of tools that you can have on the side to fact check what your agency is telling you, but those are third party tools.
Casey
And what do you mean by that? The data is not accurate?
Rob
A good little, yeah, I’ll let you know in a second. I’m in the middle of it. There’s a lot of first party tools that are straight from the source. And what I say is Google Search Console and Google Analytics and all these source tools that’s like, here’s my analogy, are you ready? It’s like going to the baseball game yourself. It’s going to be very accurate. You see the information and it’s there. Now these third party tools, which are accurate, but their accuracy is more about asking your friend how was the baseball game? So you’re kind of getting at third party.
Casey
It depends on how much beer there was.
Rob
Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot of factors that can skew those numbers, but they’re still good tools to use. I would say those tools give you a good over broad view of what’s going on, but to show the progress, because that’s what we all want to see is increased traffic, increased calls. I mean, I wish I was coming up with something that was a little bit more exciting than this, but it’s increased traffic, increased calls, but then you can use these third party ones and see like, oh, what are your top pages? And you can look at those top pages and make sure that those top pages that are performing are aligning with the practice areas that you want or something like that. And you’re like, oh yeah, these are the top pages. I see what they’re doing here. I see them increasing. I see them improving. So yeah, I wish there was something that could just pull it all together and maybe you all have something, but for me, and I have the benefit of always looking at these tools.
Casey
You know what they say.
Rob
Yeah, I would say the Google Source ones aren’t as the third party source ones.
Leann
I think a lot of people are familiar with Google Analytics. I think a lot of people know about Google Search Consoles, but I don’t think they know what it does.
What does Google Search Console actually bring to the table?
Rob
Yeah, I mean, Google Search Console is kind of like an x-ray machine into your performance. You can see the links that are going to your website. You can see the queries that people are searching to get to your website. You could see the pages that people are going to and that are performing well. You can see a quick overview of impressions, impression growth is when someone just scrolls past your name and you’re starting to get out there a little bit more. You could see clicks. So it’s kind of like an x-ray machine that shows you links, queries, top pages, any issues that are going on with your website, and then just clicks and impressions. So I’m a big fan of Google Search Console, and it’s a really quick tool to learn.
Steve
And if you’re working with an agency, they can show you this data and they should be able to show you this data and they should be familiar with this data.
Casey
But you should own it. Always own it.
Steve
Yes. That is a good point. You want to make sure that you have that ownership. It’s a good question to ask your agency though too, right? Like, “Hey, what’s my search console data look like? Am I on that? Am I the primary user on that?” But it’s definitely a good question to have. So you don’t even necessarily need to know how to go find the information.
Steve
You need to know how to ask to see the information.
Rob
Yeah. And Google Search Console has a great comparison tool, and this is you comparing your performance three months ago. That’s my main thing I do is three months comparison, and I just want to see if we’re improving.
Casey
It takes time for Google to process things and especially in bulk.
Leann
Index.
Casey
Yeah, well indexing pages. Yeah, there’s a lot of complications and nuances here, of course. So if I wanted to just track growth, I wanted to determine today I’m working with an aggressive SEO agency or an aggressive team that’s moving and making all this happen, or I’m working with team that are more passive. How can you tell one from the other one? Does anybody have any ways that you could look for that?
Steve
Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is what causes the “Six-Month Scaries” in the first place is that SEO is kind of ambiguous. You don’t really fully always know, and maybe it feels like to you going to be three articles a month and I’m approving ’em posting up because you don’t really see what’s the behind the scenes stuff. And so I think that it goes into that communication realm where you’re getting regular consistent updates. Are you hearing from your team on a pretty regular basis? Are they asking you questions? Are they giving you highlights when, Hey, here’s a term that we’ve been drawing for and now you’re showing up at all and now you’re on page three. You have to understand that’s a big result. If you’re started four or five, six months ago and you had no search presence and now you’re starting to see a search presence, you’re not going to be seeing leads off page three, page four. But that’s still a big jump and a big gain and something to notice and say, okay, I think maybe I am on the right track. I’m starting to get some presence. I’m starting to show up.
Casey
And I think I’m going to burn some bridges by saying this, but I think SEO, the model in general for a lot of agencies, if you’re working with an agency or somebody that was at an agency previously might be broken, where it’s like, “Hey, well produced three articles.” And that to me would not be really aggressive. But for me, maybe a better solution would be, and hopefully I’m not putting myself in hot water, but let’s do a lot upfront. Let’s do a lot of this legwork upfront, a lot of the content, and then we can see how Google treats it and then we can go back and tweak it if we need to. And then it depends on your strategy. If you are going to do something aggressive like accident blogging, that might be daily, obviously you’ll see that momentum and that should be tied into those metrics that you care about, which is signed cases, revenue money. But you should be able to backtrack that a couple steps too and see those growth metrics in my opinion. Totally.
Rob
Totally. I would agree. Do you need to pause here? I did. If you’re listening to this, there’s one extension tool that I just thought about that you should download right now, All in One SEO extension tool.
Casey
Okay.
Rob
Alright. That is a very important tool that I use all the time to see how my agency is doing and how they’re formatting the work. What it shows you is the title that they are putting on the page, making sure that they’re actually doing a meta description. But the title tags, these are the most basic things that identify whether they’re a decent SEO agency or not, or just checking boxes. You should only have one H one title tag, and then you can have H twos and H threes and H fours, but you need to make sure that those titles have certain keywords in them that you’re telling the agency that’s important. So, All in One SEO, it’s an extension, just put it in there and it’s so easy to just click the button and see, oh, we just put three pieces of content a month. You can look at those pieces of content and see the back end of them of like, okay, these are the basic things. They formatted this and I clearly see the keyword, which is the phrase that people would search on Google. I clearly see them trying to attract that with Google. So I just want to throw that in there. Sorry to derail, but I was like, oh man, that was one of the biggest tools that I use.
Casey
That’s your nugget. No, that’s good. That’s useful. And people can just do that and check. Awesome. And that’s the thing too, when it comes to any SEO aggressive or slow, there’s a thousand things that need to be done. There’s less of that number that are actually important. I can think of a hundred things that we do to check the boxes because they’re table stakes. And some cases I’m like, do we need to do that? But really the other thing is talking with your agency or your in-house people, is what we’re doing going to make the biggest impact? Are we prioritizing the right things? Because with this industry, it is easy to just kind of get into the check the box kind of mindset so much. But something any firm could do today is go out and look at their client list. And this is one thing that I tell potentially new clients to do is like, “Hey, your Google reviews suck or there’s not enough. Let’s take your whole client list and let’s export that and outreach to each one of them and see if they’re willing to leave feedback.” And I could go in for hours talking about reviews, but all these things need to be a part of the process, but that might have a bigger impact than going, going and making sure that you have six images on a page or I don’t know. I’m just saying something arbitrary and basic. There was no follow up question.
Leann
Well, I was just going to say, I mean value, right?. So not just checking off the boxes. I think the difference between agencies or individuals that are doing SEO that are separate is they’re not just checking a box. It’s selling you on one thing. It’s about does their strategy shift or is what they’re bringing value to what you want as far as assigned case. So you say you want X cases in this type of manner, and the problem is this, have they determined that? Have they determined the goal of what you want to accomplish, or are they just handing you back a strategy that’s just check boxes, or does it bring value?
Casey
Look at the 300 point checklist? I like stuff like that, but I don’t know why I said it in the nerd voice.
Leann
So I think value, not check boxes. So I agree. I think all aspects of those things.
Casey
Does everybody have one red flag that you could give that would be like, “Hey, I’m at the Six- Month Scaries and oh shit, this is actually not working and it’s not going to work out for me.” Is there anything like red flag that would be blaring and obvious for one is if they don’t publish any content in that six months or something or maybe you didn’t approve that content, which means you need to be out of that workflow. Just from a realistic standpoint, if you can’t get content approved, don’t be the problem. That’s a very good point. Don’t be the problem in the process.
Leann
The data, what does it say? Right? That is the red flag in my opinion. It’s like did they start on time and start tracking things? What does the data say?
If that says nothing or it’s going down or not showing any sort of uptick, at least in my opinion, you guys can disagree but think or they launch your website should be some sort of trickle of work being done.
Steve
There should be positive movement.
Leann
Yeah, sure. You should see something going on.
Casey
If it’s a month into your relationship, they launched your website, but it’s no index red fire.
Leann
True.
Rob
Yeah. I think
Leann
Can you find your website?
Casey
By typing? Yeah.
Rob
I think we can all relate to work. That’s something I’m passionate about, especially if it’s your company. You grow this mindset. No one is going to work as hard as me for my company.So if you don’t see any progress, I would ask your agency, okay, can you provide me the monthly agendas that of your strategy and the work that you completed? And if they can’t give you an organized list of everything that you’ve done, and if they can’t explain it to you, that’s a red flag doing the work. And where are you getting the strategy from? And nothing’s working. So tell me the effort that you’ve been putting into this because we can all relate to effort and work. That’s something that’s important to me is I want to see the agency working for me if I’m paying them.
So they better be able to produce in my mind the monthly agenda or the strategy or the content strategy that they’ve been working on to get you and move the needle. Because like I said, SEO, it’s just a time game. We’re trying to outwork the people that have been here for a while. So yeah, that’s my red flag. If they can’t produce the work that they’ve done or they can’t show it in an organized way and they just kind of push you a hodgepodge thing of like, oh yeah, we got.
Casey
What if they send you a list of a thousand links that were created that month?
Rob
Is very important. All right. It is very easy to buy links and there’s junkie links out there and there’s good links out there. And to use them in a strategic way, you can use junkie links, you can use in a strategic way. You can go to five. So if they’re like, oh, you gave us $3,000 and we just made you a thousand links and that’s all we’ve done, you know?
Leann
Red flag.
Rob
Red flag. Those a thousand links could have cost them a hundred dollars. And they’re just pocketing and just hanging out and being like, these numbers are arbitrary.
Casey
Of course.
Rob
Yeah. Yeah.
Casey
It got me thinking though, right now too, just a lot of it is investment side of things as well. Realistically, we were talking about at the beginning, you’re entering into a market and there’s already 300 competitors there and you’re just investing the minimum amount. You can’t really expect to see any of those timelines pushed. But on the other side, if you have a lot bigger budget to invest, you can also see some green flags right up. You can be investing in PR like we do that for I think a lot of agencies or in-house people see a lot of benefit from that because you are building a brand that people are seeing on. I hate to use Forbes as an example because they were just recently penalized, but other websites that are known and authoritative, and you will get cases from that as well. You’ll get that brand exposure, you’ll get cases and you’ll get the links and the SEL benefits that the nerdy people like me care about.
Rob
No one’s as passionate about links as Steve over here.
Casey
Steve the linker.
Rob
He loves his links.
Casey
The link builder.
Steve
Links are imperative. You still need them in 2025.
Casey
Yeah, that’s how Google was built as a search engine. And obviously we need to get mad on here in a podcast so we can debate.
Steve
We can duke it out over links.
Casey
The importance of links.
Leann
You’re calling ’em out right now.
Casey
But let’s turn it real quickly just to kind of, yeah, I was, hopefully he doesn’t see this. I’ll send it to him. But let’s talk about getting to the end here. How can you push through this “Six-Month Scaries” if people are getting cold feet again, we know it’s an investment. How do you push through this?
Leann
I was just going to kind of reiterate what we’ve already pretty much talked about is asking who’s doing your SEO is what they’re putting out and valuable to what you want as the end goal.
Casey
Communication and transparency.
Leann
You know the theme, but value right? Not putting a thousand links over the last six months, but is what they’re producing valuable?
Casey
Is what they’re doing exceptional? Or is it just sending you a checklist of we optimize 42 meta descriptions.
Steve
And you’re just like, what is a meta description?
Casey
But also understand that in relative of your budget, if you’re investing the minimum amount and they only have a few hours to work on you, if that’s all you can afford, then still.
Leann
Should be valued.
Casey
You’re right. You’re right. Yeah, I was trying to think about how to say that. So thank you for making that sound better than I could come up with.
Steve
To me, I think the best way to push through a “Six-Month Scaries” is to not get them in the first place. And you do that by being engaged, paying attention.
Leann
That’s a good point.
Steve
Whoever you hire in-house agency, be engaged. And I don’t mean you’re breathing down their neck and every day what’s going on, but being involved in the process, asking questions, trying to learn and understand what is making this work, and just being there all along the process.
And then I think you never get to that point of having those “Six-Month Scaries” because you know what’s going on. You’re aware of what they’re working on, what the strategy’s going, you’re not just kind of waiting for an email. And as an attorney, you get busy, and I know this when I’ve emailed attorneys for months and you don’t hear anything from them. And then they’ll come back and they have a list of concerns and well, if we don’t know the concerns or if your team doesn’t know the concerns, they can’t act on them.
Casey
And you touched on something there that isn’t commonly talked about. There needs to be a process in place, just like your business needs to be able to run, at least as you build a bigger business without you doing everything, having your hand in everything. So there needs to be a push process or whatever for this stuff to keep happening. Don’t be the roadblock in your own success.
Leann
Set a meeting too and showing up, honestly.
Casey
You’re asking too much.
Leann
Communication and transparency, right?
Steve
It only breaks down to a couple hours a month that if you’ve hired a team, if you have people doing this for you, it really only breaks down to a couple hours a month.
Rob
Yeah. So how do I avoid Six-Month Scaries?
Casey
Yeah.
Rob
I don’t, because “Six-Month Scaries” is scary. You’re trusting someone and you’re paying them. Money is your weapon as a business owner, money is your weapon. So you’re paying someone and you’re trusting them to do a good job, right? So what does it come down to and how do you avoid that? Well, it’s like any other relationship. How do you build trust with someone? So I think you avoid the “Six-Month Scaries” by trusting and building a relationship with your agency and knowing that they’re doing good work. And you do that by identifying any of the red flags that we talked about today. Really having someone that you’re working with that’s passionate. I want passionate people working for me. I don’t want someone that just shows up and like, yeah, I’m just here to collect the paycheck. Yeah. I want someone that loves marketing, breathes marketing, and I want to feel that and the confidence that they have. If they show me what they’re doing in an organized manner, that gives me more trust and be like, alright, you know what? I’m bought in. Let’s blow this out of the water and keep going.
Casey
That’s awesome. And I just had a really important thing to say there. Oh, as goal setting, actually, that’s what you reminded me of. It’s like, because yeah, it’s that little thing. No, but in transparency, going back to Leann, I’m giving you a lot of credit now, Leann. Look at this. But that transparency of communication of, look, I am signing cases and actually being open of this is the leads that we got. These were good, these were bad. Having that back and forth actually probably alleviates a lot of that. But at least if you’re not sharing that information with the people doing the work, you’re kind of doomed to failure. And don’t you think, how are you ever going to align your smart goals and actually achieve those results unless you have a working relationship like that?
Rob
Totally. I mean, trust goes both ways.
Casey
Yeah, right.
Rob
So, you’re trying to get their trust and you should be able to trust them and share the wins and share the successes. We’re not sitting here like, oh, we need more money. We need more money. We want to achieve your goal. And to do that, having a nice little trust tree and a relationship and sharing wins and telling us what’s good, what’s bad, that’s so important.
Leann
Well, and it doesn’t take a lot of time. Obviously attorneys are busy and they sometimes giving that information or sitting down to talk through different cases. It doesn’t take that there are tools in place that can help alleviate those things. Or just sending a checklist at the end of the month and say, these are good cases.
It doesn’t take a lot of time. And I think a lot of people get caught up in, well, if we do that and engage with the SEO, it’s going to just, I don’t have the time for it. I don’t have the time to mark that as a good leader or bad lead. Someone else will do it. Okay, well that doesn’t help kind of solve the problem either. So I think there’s ways, if they’re a good SEO, there’s a quick way of not taking up a lot of time to solve the problem.
Casey
Got it. Yeah. Yo know, I agree. Alright guys, well, thank you so much for joining me today on this wonderful journey of nerd-speak and SEO speak. Hopefully it wasn’t too boring. I had a great time!
Leann
Should hashtag nerd.
Casey
We’re passionate about this stuff. We care and we live and breathe it. So, thank you so much.
Steve
Thanks, Casey.
Rob
Thanks.
Leann
Yeah, that’s good.
Casey
Cheers.
